 I'm trying to keep about six or seven feet. I don't like them to get any taller than that. I'm trimming or I'm finding. The old days we told everybody to cut everything at a big angle. We'll find that it works a lot better if you don't do that. The best way to trim is to keep your trees short. The trim right on these joints. You cut right across that joint because you notice the leaf scars right underneath these joints. They get real close together and that's where your new plants are going to come out. If you want your plants to be thicker and you cut right across those joints just on a little bit of an angle so the water run off. Not a big angle. You'll get three or four or five tips up coming out of each one of those. Now if you have places where they're growing out and they're in your way and you're going to run into them, then you want to cut them off real short. If you cut it off like that nothing's going to come out where you cut it.