- Hey, how it goin'?
Seth here from Retipster.com.
In this video I'm gonna talk
to you a little bit about
land surveys.
(bright music)
So, one of the inherent challenges
when you're buying a piece of vacant land,
is the fact that it's vacant.
Like, when there's no
house on the property
or no clear markers to
identify where the boundaries
of the property are,
and especially when there's no
registered physical address.
Like, you can't just type
the address into Google Maps
or a GPS device and get to the property
because if that address doesn't exist,
then there's no way for
these systems to figure out
where that property's located.
Which can be problematic
because if you wanna go
and look at it yourself,
or if you want to build something on it,
ya obviously have to
know where your land is
and what it consists of.
And a lotta times there
are some really helpful
GIS parcel mapping systems
on the county website
that you can use
to give yourself a
really good idea of this,
but the fact of the matter is,
those parcel maps are not the same thing
as getting an actual
survey on the property.
And a survey is when a
professional surveyor
takes the legal description
of the property,
which is usually a really confusing string
of words and numbers that
doesn't make a lotta sense
to the average person.
They take that information,
they take the title work on the property,
so all the title history and
the documents relating to it.
And they will go ahead and put together
a drawing of the property,
and they can even go out
and put survey markers
on the property to mark
where the corners are.
So, if you or anybody
else wants to go out and
see onsite where the actual
boundaries of the property are,
you can do that.
And we've actually got
a really good article
on the blog if you wanna check it out
and look more into how
legal description work
and how to make sense of them.
I'm gonna go ahead and
link to that blog post
beneath this video if
you wanna check that out.
But essentially, if you're
gonna order a survey
you don't have to do all
this stuff for yourself,
that's what you're
paying the surveyor for.
All you have to do is give
them the legal description
and any title work that you
have relating to that property,
and they will go ahead and use that
and put together the drawing for you.
So, you don't have to concern
yourself with all this.
But the question that I
wanna address with you today
is first of all,
when do you need to order a survey?
Especially when you're a buyin' a property
for a few thousand or even
a few hundred dollars,
is it really worth spending
several hundred more
just to get a survey to
find out where it is?
Especially if you have a GIS
parcel map from the county,
can't you just rely on that?
Why do you really need
to go through the steps
of getting a survey too?
So, we're gonna cover some of that stuff,
and then also, if ya ever
do decide to order a survey,
what kind of survey do you need to go.
'Cause there's actually several
different kinds of surveys,
and if ya don't know specifically
what kinda survey you want,
you're kinda just leavin'
it up to the surveyor
to give you whatever they think you need.
And a lotta times they
don't necessarily understand
what you need it for,
and you know, it may be
in their best interest
to just ya know, oops.
Let's order this person
the most expensive survey
we can possibly put together for them
and charge you thousands for it.
So, another important aspect of this,
is you understanding what
kinda survey you actually need
and what sorts of
information you need included
on the final survey
that they put together.
And ultimately, why
you're ordering a survey
in the first place.
So, in terms of when
and why you might want to order a survey,
there's a few different
scenarios that come in mind,
and this is definitely not
covering every scenario.
These are just the ones
that I've encountered
most frequently when the
need for a survey arises.
I'd say one of the more
common reasons for a survey
is when the person who's
buying the property from me,
wants one.
So, they just wanna feel comfortable,
and they wanna see onsite
and in the form of a drawing,
where the property boundaries are,
and anything else that's
important for them to know about
like, easement access
or utility lines goin'
through their property,
or the topography of their property.
Or whether their
property's in a flood zone.
Things like that.
Different buyers will care
about different things.
So, whenever somebody says
that they want a survey
or maybe they're questioning
where the boundaries are,
or sometimes one of the neighbors
might even come up to them
and say, "Hey, I actually
own this big chunk
of your property, it's not yours."
And then basically we
need to prove them wrong
by ordering a survey.
That's one particular
scenario in which a survey
would be required, or at
least very smart to get
if you want to win that kind of a battle.
And I can tell ya, if
you have any plans to
do anything to the property,
whether you're building on it
or if you're going to subdivide it,
or change the zoning or
repurpose it for any reason.
In those cases, I think a
survey is basically a must,
because you want to be very very clear
about where the boundaries
are before you just
start altering the face of the earth.
For instance, if your plan
was to harvest timber,
ya definitely don't wanna
go into that just guessing
where your property is in
starting to cut down trees,
'cause you could be cutting
down trees from your neighbor
if you're not absolutely sure
where the boundary lines are.
Or if you were gonna
parcel out the property
and split into smaller buildable lots
that you can then sell
and potentially make more
from the property overall.
Again, I'm not sure why you
would ever buy a property
with that intent without
first doing a survey.
Because before you can start
breakin' it up into smaller parcels,
ya have to know what you're workin' with.
Like, exactly how large the property is,
where the boundaries are,
what the dimensions are.
All that stuff.
So, if you're lookin' at doin'
a more involved project like that,
then I don't think there's even a question
that you have to get a survey.
And you're probably gonna
need that surveyors help
in the future as well,
if you do start breakin' up the property
and tryin' to sell it off as smaller lots.
Another instance in which
a survey can be helpful,
is if you have a property
that is landlocked
and you want to confirm
or deny that there is any
easement access to the property.
So, for example,
if you own a property that kinda
out in the middle of nowhere
and there are no clear roads
going to and from the property,
it's basically like stuck behind
somebody else's property
and you have to walk
over that property in
order to get to yours.
A lotta times what will happen is,
there actually is something
called an easement,
which gives the owner legal access
to walk over that other persons property
without trespassing to
access their property.
And sometimes they can
even put like, a road
through that easement
and they're allowed to
because they don't necessarily own
that portion of the neighbor's property,
but they're allowed to cross over it
in order to get to theirs.
And sometimes when ya see
a landlocked property,
these easements will exist
somewhere in the recorded
deed history.
Sometimes the easements will not exist,
it's literally landlocked
and ya can't get to it
without trespassing over
somebody else's property.
So, whether there is or isn't an easement,
in order to figure that out,
you basically have to do a title search
and see if any easements show up
in the recorded title
history on that property.
And if they do show up, you
can take that paperwork,
bring it to a surveyor,
and say, hey, I want you to
draw a map of this property,
show me where the boundaries are
and show me where the easement
is that goes to my property.
So, where does it crossover?
Which of my neighbors properties?
That might be another
scenario where a survey
would make a lotta sense.
Now, the key is though,
surveys usually cost at
least a few hundred dollars.
Sometimes a lot more,
depending on the property,
and the area where your
property's located,
and what the surveyor feels
like charging you for the work.
And if you bought a landlocked property,
you probably paid a very very
very very low price for it,
because of the fact
that it was landlocked.
Or if you didn't pay a really low price,
you should have.
So, the thing about that situation is,
if you know that there's an
easement to that property,
you just don't where it is,
then I would say yes.
It probably is worth
payin' for a survey because
the existence of that easement,
especially if you can pinpoint
exactly where that's at
to the person you're selling
the property to in the future,
or to yourself if you decide to use that.
That's gonna add a lotta
value to that property
simply because now
you're able to get to it.
But if there is not an easement,
then I would say it's probably not worth
ordering a survey, simply because
that property's not gonna be worth a lot,
no matter how ya slice it.
And payin' a lotta money for a survey
just to confirm the fact that, yep.
There's no easement, there's no access,
so it's not worth very much,
it may not make a lotta sense.
Now, with that being said, I think
the textbook answer that you'll always get
from a mortgage lender, from a surveyor,
from an appraiser, from an
attorney, any of these people.
They'll probably always going to tell you
that you should always order a survey.
That's kinda like, the sage advice
that you're gonna hear out there.
And admittedly, there
is a lot to be gained
from having a survey and
just knowing for certain
where that property's
boundaries are located.
And it's also a helpful
thing when it comes time
to sell the property.
If you have that survey
and you can just provide it
to the person,
that adds a lot of value and
reassurance to them as well.
So, I don't think it's every like,
a dumb thing to get a survey.
I think just from an
economical standpoint,
you have to ask yourself, okay.
How much do you have
invested in this property?
How much do you stand to sell it for?
And is the cost of this survey
gonna be able to fit
within that profit margin
or is it just gonna be
throwin' money out the window?
And that's not really
somethin' I can answer for you,
that's somethin' that you
have to evaluate for yourself.
Depending on the numbers
with the deal that you're lookin' at.
So, just keep that in mind.
I'm not telling you that
you should or should not
order a survey in any
particular situation.
I'm just tellin' you
how I think through this
when I'm considering
paying money for a survey
on a piece of vacant land.
Now, when it comes to the
type of survey to order,
I know I've heard different
reports from people
and I've even experienced this myself.
When they call up surveyor and they say,
"Hey, I want a survey for this property."
And the surveyor responds
with, "Okay, that'll be $3000."
And it's like, whoa, 3000 bucks?
Like, why so much for
this particular property?
And sometimes it costs that much because
it's a huge property and
there's a lot of moving pieces,
and components that go into
drawing up that survey.
So, the price is that
high simply because like,
it's actually gonna take a ton a work.
But a lotta time, if you're
heaving a huge number like that,
it's probably 'cause
the surveyor is quoting
a survey that you don't really need.
So, I wanna just quickly explain to you
some of the different
survey types out there.
And this is not an all inclusive list,
there's probably other survey types
that I'm not gonna mention here.
But for intents and
purposes, these are like,
the major, most common ones
that everybody in the survey
business is familiar with.
So, I've just pulled up
several different websites
from surveyors around the country.
Just to kinda show you the
commonalities between them.
And, this right here is
a surveyor that's located
not far from me.
For the most part, the
cheapest kind of survey
that you can get,
is something called a Surveyors Report.
I've also seen it called a
Mortgage Inspection Report.
Looks like this other one here calls it a
Surveyor's Real Property Report.
And essentially what that is,
is the surveyor is not even
going out to the property.
They're literally just
like, sitting at their desk
and they're looking up the local records.
Maybe looking at the historical plat maps
from back when the neighborhood
was first established.
And basically, the idea
behind this kinda report
is to just give a lender
or a property owner,
reasonable assurance
that yes, this property
does technically exist according
to the historical records.
And this is what we think it looks like,
based on the information we've seen.
Like very very basic, without
a whole lotta information.
It's just gonna show that
yes, here's the property.
It is this feet long by this
feet wide, on this road.
There ya go, good luck.
So, there's not a whole lot of information
or reassurance there.
And because that kinda survey
does not require a ton of work
from the surveyor,
it's by far the least expensive one.
However, because there's
nobody who's actually going
to the property and
staking out the corners,
I think it's only marginally useful.
I mean, in my mind the whole
reason why I'm getting a survey
is to be 100% sure of
where the property is.
And it's also a benefit
for my future buyers
so that they can see where the stakes are,
and they can feel confident that yes,
they are actually buying
something that exists.
And this is literally
where that property is.
So, every time I've ordered survey,
it's always been this
next one on the list,
which you know, some people call it a
Property Boundary Survey
with Location of Improvements
in this case.
Or another name for it would be
just a Boundary Survey,
which establishes the location
of the property boundaries
that are marked with
permeant iron corner stakes
set below the ground.
So, to explain what that means,
in many many areas around the country,
maybe even everywhere for all I know.
Whenever they establish a new neighborhood
and put together these plat maps to say,
okay, here's lot one, here's
lot two, here's lot three.
What they'll do,
is they will go to the corner
of each one of those lots,
and then drive a huge piece of
metal rebar into the ground.
So that in the future, if people want to
go through and be 100% sure
of where the corners are
on each lot,
they can actually use a
metal detector if they want.
Or even dig down into the ground
until they find this rebar
and say, yes, this is the corner
because here is the piece of rebar.
So, that's what they're talkin' about
when they reference the
permanent iron corner stakes
set below the ground.
They'll actually find where those are
and then drive a wooden
stake into the ground
above that, so you can very clearly see
where the technical corners
are of the property.
Now, when you're dealin' with a property
that isn't just vacant land
and it might have like,
a house or a barn or
something like that on it.
You can also get a Boundary
Survey with Improvements,
where they're not just
gonna show where the corners
and where the lines of the property are.
But they're also gonna show the location
of those improvements
on the property as well.
So, there's that too.
And then, by far the most expensive
and comprehensive type of
survey that you can order,
is something called the ALTA Survey.
This shows every possible
thing you can imagine.
So, not just where the
property boundaries are
and not just where the improvements are,
but like, everything.
And this is actually a list I found
on one surveyors website
where you can check off
every single possible item
that comes with an ALTA Survey.
And there's a lot.
They'll tell ya the exterior dimensions
of all buildings at ground level,
and the measured height
of all the buildings,
and substantial features
observed in the process.
Striping, number and
type of parking spaces,
whether the property overlaps
with a flood zone at all,
and the current zoning.
I mean, you name it, they'll
tell ya in this kinda survey.
And this is the kinda survey
that you typically need if
you're going to do like,
a massive commercial construction project.
Because there's a lot of information
that the contractors and
builders are gonna need
in order to build it adequately,
and not get in the way of any easements
that might be running
through the property.
And also keep in mind,
if ya are gonna be doing a
very very complex project
like subdividing the property,
then I think you're
definitely gonna wanna talk
to your surveyor about your specific plans
and ask them what kind of
survey they would suggest.
There's definitely a time and a place
for this kinda survey,
but for the most part, if I'm just buyin'
a small residential lot.
And I'm not doing anything to it,
I'm not building anything on it,
I'm not changin' the zoning,
I'm just gonna take it as is
and then flip it to somebody
else and sell it for more.
I honestly can't think of any scenario
where I would need to
pay thousands of dollars
for all this information,
because I just don't need it.
Pretty much the most I would need is,
this kinda thing.
The Boundary Survey and/or
if there's any improvements on it,
then possibly the Boundary
Survey with Improvements.
Or whatever the surveyor
I'm working with uses
to explain that kind of things.
So, I'll show ya a couple
surveys I've ordered in the past
that were boundaries surveys.
Just to give ya an idea for what I got
when I ordered them.
This one in particular was a parcel
that consisted of three
lots, side-by-side.
It was a pretty small property.
And the reason I ordered this survey
was because one of the
neighbors was claiming
that his property line came
up to like, right here.
And he was like, insisting that,
"Yes, this is my property."
And I was insisting that, no, it's not.
So, now I have to go order a survey
and have the surveyor stake the property
and prove to you that I actually own this.
So, that was why I ordered
this particular survey.
And I believe this one cost,
I think it was less than
300 bucks, it wasn't crazy.
This particular surveyor
I've used for years,
and he does a great job,
and charges are really fair price.
So, it really wasn't that expensive
and as you can see,
it doesn't include a ton a information.
But it includes everything
that I needed to know
in that situation to verify
where the property was located.
And I've also got the
legal description up here
and the drawing of the property,
and how many feet long and wide,
and what the dimensions were,
and where the road was in relation to it.
And just to give ya an idea,
this is what the property looks like
according to the county's
GIS mapping system.
That little orange
square was the property.
If I was just relying on that,
that was all the information I had.
And it actually was reasonably accurate.
I mean, that's not like
bad or wrong or anything,
it just doesn't have as much information
as this one does, which
clearly shows which lots I own
and how wide they were,
and how many feet away
it was to the next road.
And also this guy actually
drove out to the property
and drove a wooden stakes into all four
of the corners for me.
So, all in all, it was money well spent
because it resolved the issue
with the neighboring property owner.
I wish they just hadn't done
that in the first place,
so I wouldn't of had to do this.
But if that kinda thing does come up,
that would be one potential situation
where ordering a survey isn't
just a nice thing to do,
it's sort of a must,
so that you can prove where
the property is that you own.
So, that's an example
of just a very simple
boundary survey on a
vacant parcel of land.
This is another example of a survey,
and this one is a little bit more complex.
This was a 12 acre parcel that I owned
up in northern Michigan.
And one of the interesting
things about this property
is that it was located
right on Lake Huron,
which is a federal body of water.
And the way federal bodies of water work,
is that you don't actually own the beach.
That's like, public property
that anybody can go and walk on.
So, one of the ideas behind this survey
was to very clearly mark
out where my property ended
and where the beach began.
And this kinda shows you a
dotted line where that is.
And this particular property
also had some wetlands on it,
and was in a floodplain,
and so they marked out
where they thought the floodplain was
based on the hundred year flood line
established using aerial photography.
So, that was pretty helpful,
and as a result of getting this survey
and then also doing a subsequent
perc test on the property
to figure out where, if
anywhere on the property,
I could put a septic tank and drain field.
I was able to figure out
that really the only place
on this property where a person
could ever build anything,
was gonna be in this corner of it.
'Cause that was the only place
where all of the components
needed to build a house existed.
It was kind of a bummer because, you know,
this is a 12 acre parcel of land,
and if the house is back here,
it's not gonna have a
great view of the water
over on this end,
which is kinda what everybody wants.
But still, the fact that
I can build a house at all
on the property is
pretty important to know,
because if I can't, that
kinda sabotages the value
of the property and what a future buyer
might be willing to pay for it.
This particular survey cost me,
I think it was about 750 bucks.
Because it was a pretty large property
and there were a lot of moving pieces
that they needed to include in here,
that they wouldn't normally
have needed to include
in a simpler scenario like this.
But, that just kinda you an idea of
what the cost of this type
of survey can typically be.
At least in the areas where I've worked.
And it's worth noting, I've
found that some surveyors
are a lot more expensive than others.
I think you'll find that the smaller shops
where the surveyor is just like, one guy
and maybe his assistant are
gonna be a lot less expensive
than the big, huge,
companies that employ like,
50 people.
In my experience, that's pretty
much always been the case.
And I don't necessarily know
that you're gonna get like,
a better or worse quality of work
from a smaller guy.
They just have less overhead to cover,
and as a result, they're a lot cheaper.
So, I'd just keep that in mind
if you're lookin' for the lowest price,
try to find those survey shops out there
that are just like, a one man shop.
Or maybe like, a one or
two or three man shop.
'Cause that will probably
give you a better value
and a bigger bang for your buck overall.
So, if you're in a situation
where you just have to get a survey,
I think it's definitely
worth callin' around
to more than one surveyor
just to get some quotes
on how much they're gonna charge.
Because you may find some
pretty big fluctuations
in the prices that some
of them will charge.
And again, my intent with this video
is not tell you that
you should or shouldn't
order a survey in any particular scenario.
But it's more just to
help ya understand like,
how I think through it and the situations
when I've ordered one, why I ordered one,
and why it was worth it
and why I was willin' to pay the price.
I think every situation is different
and there's definitely
a lot you can get done
just by relying on
things like, Google Earth
and the county's GIS mapping system,
neither of which are
guaranteed to be accurate ever.
But in a lotta cases,
they're accurate enough
to get the job done and just
to get you confident enough
to move forward.
So, with that said,
I hope this video was
reasonably helpful for ya.
If you've never ordered a survey,
it's not really hard
and for the most part,
the surveyor does all the work for ya,
ya just have to provide
them with the basic details,
usually the title work
and the legal description,
and then they will go to
work and prepare it for ya.
So, thanks for watchin'
and I wish y'all the best.