Every day, millions of Vietnamese 
enjoy rice noodles in the form of pho,  
a steaming bowl of 
beef noodle soup.
In the early morning hours, on 
side streets and street corners,  
Hanoi’s hard-working cooks begin 
setting up their pho stations.
A soup, a meal, a national treasure—
pho is a widespread addiction.
Many Vietnamese start the day with 
a steaming bowl of this divine noodle soup.
Often mispronounced, 
but immediately appreciated,
pho is pronounced like “fur” with a soft “r.”
Once the broth is prepared, it takes only seconds 
to assemble — and not much longer to eat.
Truly, pho is a fast food that 
even a dietitian can love.
The essence of pho is a beefy consommé 
flavored with charred onions and ginger,
rock sugar and star anise.
When a customer places an order, the 
simmering broth is ladled over rice noodles,
along with the diner’s choice of thinly 
sliced beef, meatballs or chicken.
Scallions, bean sprouts, chilies and 
fresh herbs add a burst of fragrance
and the layered textures that characterize 
the best Vietnamese cooking.
Whether it’s eaten indoors, or on the street to the 
accompanying soundtrack of car honks and scooters,
pho perfectly captures the 
genius of the Vietnamese kitchen.
Back from their visit to Vietnam, Mai Pham, and 
Unilever Foodsolutions Executive Chef, Steve Jilleba,
demonstrate the finer points of 
recreating this invigorating meal in a bowl.
[Chef Mai Pham speaking]
Well I'm very excited about doing this dish 
because it's my personal favorite
and I would eat it every day if I could.
A couple of things to remember. It takes a while 
because we're going to simmer the broth and, uh....
what we're going to start — you can do this 
either with beef bones, which is really traditional,
and much preferred in Vietnam 
because beef is a sort of a luxury meat,
and people love to go out and have pho, 
but obviously you can also do this with chicken.
And we have a pot that's boiling right now, so if you 
want to go ahead and put the knucklebones into water....
What this process does, is that it will clean the 
bones first, so you want to blanch at the bones....
[Chef Mai Pham]
So, I'm getting you some tongs here. 
 
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
And we're doing it in boiling water. 
 
[Chef Mai Pham]
We're doing boiling water.
And then, we have another pot in the back here, 
ready for you to transfer the bones, so....
You want to put the bones inside the boiling 
water and bring it up to a boil again.
Knuckle bones are good. 
You can also use ox tails.
I like to use a combination, but definitely the knuckle bones
 give a really wonderful — it's real good flavor,
real wonderful — a richness to it.
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
And this really goes back to classical way to make stock. 
So, it must come from — I don't know where it came from.
I know there's French influence. But it goes 
back to the classical way of making stock.
[Chef Mai Pham]
Uh-huh. I'm going to turn the heat up a little higher 
because we put a lot of cool bones in there,
and a lot of what ..... A lot of 
people don't think about when....
When you're thinking about pho, 
and for that matter — really Asian soups...
If it's the broth soups in Asian cooking, 
it's very desirable...
And in fact, it's really where it's at. 
It's in the clarity of the broth.
And so the broth should be very flavorful, 
it should be beefy. But it can't be, you know, dark.
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
Cannot be cloudy.
 
[Chef Mai Pham]
It cannot be cloudy at all.
So, after a while, when it goes into the 
big pot where we will make our broth,
we're going to have to watch the fire. 
In Vietnam, the families would stay up all night.
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
Right, you don't want to make it let it boil.
 
[Chef Mai Pham]
No, not a vigorous boil.
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
That's what makes things that....Light simmer, light bubbles. 
And that's really what makes the stock cloudy.
[Chef Mai Pham] 
So, definitely what you don't want to do with the bones 
is you do not want to brown first in the oven.
And put it in here because that would 
be creating a very cloudy broth.
The idea is to basically blanch it, clean it up, or cleanse it 
a little bit up, and remove any kind of scum and debris. Um....
We will still have to keep an eye on this pot here, and we'll have
to skim it off when we see all the foam that comes to the top.
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
Keep skimming and that's what nice clear broth. 
 
[Chef Mai Pham]
Right.
You can put the meat in here too.
And what I like to do with the meat is a, you know, like a 
chuck roast would be really nice. In Vietnam we'll use a brisket.
And yes, it's a little bit fatty, 
but you're only wanting the flavor.
Much of the fat — any of the fat that you see — we can 
trim it off (or we could skim it off) from the soup pot later on.
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
Right, and you want little tiny bubbles of fat, 
if I remember. Because sometimes.... 
 
[Chef Mai Pham]
Yes, just a little bit.
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
Like fish eyes. Just a few little things, 
kind of a little bit of flavor.
[Chef Mai Pham]
Right, because you have to remember 
that this is a meal in itself.
It's a meal in a bowl. And so this is all you're eating. 
This is all the meat you're eating.
And this is all the fat that you're going 
to consume for this particular meal.
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
And ends up a small amount of meat. 
 
[Chef Mai Pham]
A very small amount, when you think about it.
Okay, so that's boiling. So, you go ahead 
and I'll help you fish this out and....
Transfer it over here.
And so it's not a particularly 
difficult dish to make, Steve, but....
There are a lot of little nuances to it 
that you have to pay attention to.
Should simmer for about [....]
So, now that we have the bones in the broth, right? 
We're going to get ready and char some ginger,
some onions and some shallots.
And shallots because they're much more intense than onions.
And onions are nice because they really sweeten the broth.
They're really nice. And this process, 
you just basically char them.
You could just char this right
directly over the fire.
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
So it's very quick.
 
[Chef Mai Pham]
Very quick, very hot.
Just leave it over here. Of course, you can also use a screen
 if you're doing a larger quantity maybe, that would be nice.
And we're just basically char them.
And the idea is not 
to cook through.
It's just to create a little smoky flavor 
right at, you know, on the surface.
There's a lot of flavor right on the ginger skin. 
A lot of vegetables and a lot of fruits, the....
[Chef Mai Pham]
The most intense flavor is —
 
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
Right within the skin, that first layer?  
 
[Chef Mai Pham]
— right within the skin, yes, exactly.
[Chef Mai Pham]
So, that's what basically 
we're trying to do here.
Turn this. This is what you're looking for....
Because remember, it's going to cook for 
about four minutes. Okay, that piece is good.
We're gonna go — I like lots of ginger.
Lay it right there. Do a little bit 
more of this shallots here.
This is all you're looking for. Not to be cooking it 
too long, you know? This is a really nice color.
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
A little bit of caramelization get some 
of that sweetness out of that.
[Chef Mai Pham]
Right. And with this.... and it's sort of 
the essence of Vietnamese cuisine, too.
You want nuances, you want nice aromas, 
you want layers of different fragrances.
Not so intense. If you were to burn this, char this, 
and it's all black, it might be too smoky....
[Chef Mai Pham]
And therefore interfere. 
 
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
Cuz it'll turn bitter.
[Chef Mai Pham]
Right, and interfere with the nice subtle flavor. 
 
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
The flavors, right.
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
And it was a blend of flavors, or kind of a symphony of 
flavors, they really blend it very well in your mouth.
[Chef Mai Pham]
Okay, I'm going to reduce this and before 
we turn that back, you want to a roast? Okay.
So, we got this. wWe're going to add it to the soup, okay? 
Now we are going to roast the spices.
Will turn this down a little, 
because this fire is really hot, okay?
And you want to be able just 
to feel the heat a little bit,
but not more than that because 
it could scorch very easily.
[Chef Mai Pham]
And could turn it really bitter. 
 
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
Really bitter. So, you got your 
star anise.... your cinnamon....
[Chef Mai Pham]
Cardamon, yes, fennel....
 
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
Fennel.
[Chef Mai Pham]
Right, and coriander seeds and some cloves. 
You see some cloves here, right?
And the essence of Vietnamese 
pho is really in this flavor.
In star anise. 
You definitely can detect that.
And in the background, you'll you'll be able to taste 
the wonderful subtle notes of coriander seeds,
a little bit of Vietnamese cinnamon. 
This cinnamon, I don't know....
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
Yes, and we have a regular cinnamon here.
So, you see....
 
[Chef Mai Pham]
Yes, oh good, we can compare them.
And you could use this. And if you were using 
this kind of cinnamon, I would use less.
Just a very little. 
This is much sweeter.
Has a higher oil content. Can you....? 
It's very aromatic, right? It's very sweet.
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
It is very sweet.
 
[Chef Mai Pham]
This is very strong cinnamon.
So usually, when I use that, 
I would decrease the amount.
And I can feel that it's getting a little warm. 
Sometimes people don't know when.
If you start seeing smoke, 
it's really too hot.
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
Do you look for a tiny bit of a 
haze to come out? Just barely?
 
[Chef Mai Pham]
Just barely.
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
I can smell it now.
 
[Chef Mai Pham]
You can smell it now.
So, if you want.....
We can put this in. 
And I have a little spoon over here.
We can try to gather them up.
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
So, are we gonna use all of this?
 
[Chef Mai Pham]
Yes, we are.
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
For the one pot?
 
[Chef Mai Pham]
Yes.
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
That's pretty amazing.
[Chef Mai Pham]
It looks like a lot but 
it's really not really.
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
Well, I'm kinda experimenting a little bit and trying to 
to make it, but I didn't use this much spice at all. So, now I'm....
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
That's what the great lesson is all about. 
 
[Chef Mai Pham]
Okay. Great.
You do want to be careful that.... Actually the 
Star Anise can sometimes can be very overpowering.
I personally like it on this kind 
of on the hard spice side.
In the northern part, in Hanoi, 
where the dish originated,
people love to have 
their pho very subtle.
Do you remember that? 
When we were in Hanoi?
In that alley? Where the family was making it? 
It was mostly a beef broth, right?
[Chef Mai Pham]
And then, I think that you said that you 
probably prefer the one in Saigon?
 
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
Uh huh. Yes.
[Chef Mai Pham]
The one that we went to 
which has more spice to it, yeah. 
 
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
More spice to it.
[Chef Mai Pham]
And here you go.
And you know that you could use these bags easy, 
because you can fish the whole thing out....
or you just dump the whole thing in 
and then strain it later on. So we can do that.
[Chef Mai Pham]
And actually, why don't we 
dump this into the pot? 
 
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
Want to dump this?
 
[Chef Mai Pham]
Yeah, right....
[Chef Mai Pham]
Right away, yep.
[Chef Mai Pham]
No, you can go ahead and 
add this right now. 
 
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
Okay.
[Chef Mai Pham] 
You can add the whole thing. Here you go.
 
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
My tongs.
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
It's okay because it's gonna cook, 
so it's okay if I use my hands a little bit.
[Chef Mai Pham] 
Right, and you know that I would probably 
not put the spice bag in (you can put *this* in),
another spice bag in for four hours.
I like my spices in only for about two hours.
It's sort of a personal preference. 
But I feel that when you put the spices in,
and it cooks for a certain amount 
of time, it starts to dissipate.
and and the flavor will still be there, 
but it's not as vibrant.
It's more more homogeneous. 
It's, like, a blended kind of flavor.
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
Do you believe in your philosophy 
(and maybe this is an overall philosophy)
that you kind of layer some spices 
in there sometimes?
[Chef Mai Pham]
Yeah, because I think that one of the....Right.
 
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
Different levels?
[Chef Mai Pham]
One of the wonderful things about Southeast Asian 
cuisine and Vietnamese cuisine in particular
is that it's very flavorful 
but yet it's not pungent.
And you do that by cooking 
spices a certain way....
And don't put it in too much. 
Don't cook it too long.
They all become kind of a little bit overpowering sometimes a  little bit too pungent.
A little bit too much homogenous. 
It all tastes kind of blended,
whereas in Vietnamese cuisine, 
we kinda want....
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
....You want spikes. Spikes is maybe a bad word, 
but you want different levels.
[Chef Mai Pham]
Different levels, right, yeah. 
 
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
But it is kind of spiking little 
different things that in your mouth.
[Chef Mai Pham]
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, we're going 
to let this cook, and it will start to boil.
And when it boils, what we 
want to do is just keep skimming.
So, in Vietnam, people love to.... 
The family would stay up all night
and they take turns watching it.
And what you don't want to do is.... don't want ever to....
For example, traditionally is made over a wood fire,
and sometimes it just sparks 
and starts burning. And so, and so....
that people always the pho cooks are 
always watching the fire for that reason 
because they don't want it to boil, 
because that will spoil the whole pot  
and will spoil the whole 
day's work for them.
So, we're going to let that cook for about two hours and 
then later on, we're going to add of the spices in there.
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
Okay.
 
[Chef Mai Pham]
Okay?
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
So, get a little bit of scum 
off the top of there.
[Chef Mai Pham]
Right, yeah, so you see it'll continue to simmer 
and then as it simmers you smell this wonderful....
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
Yeah, the aroma's starting to come out. 
You're getting that beef aroma now.
[Chef Mai Pham]
Yeah, but you're also getting some some impurities out, 
and so we want to make sure that we skim that off.
And this is really the important 
moment in pho cooking,
and something that, you know, pho cooks
in Vietnam pay a lot of attention to,
and that is the way that....
This is probably a little bit too high.
Even a little too high. 
So, I'm going to turn 
it down a little bit.
You want it to bubble. 
You don't want it to boil.
That's probably the 
right amount, okay?
[Chef Mai Pham]
At this point you want to go ahead and 
put the spices that you roasted earlier?
 
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
The spice mixture?
[Chef Mai Pham]
Right, so that goes in. And you can put this in until the very end,
but like I said, I like it kind of like at about two hours.
And so if you were to cook this pot for eight hours, 
you would put the spice in in the last two hours.
It's sort of a personal preference. 
You could probably go up to three.
Some people like it at four.
I don't know, my palate is such that I like to 
be able to discern all the different flavors in there.
The coriander, the cumin, 
and the cinnamon.
At this point we're going to put 
some fish sauce in there.
And you notice that the brand that 
we're using is a Vietnamese brand,
and the Vietnamese style is 
much lighter, much clearer...
And the Thai is more intense and for this 
particular dish it likes a very delicate flavor.
So, we'll put some fish sauce 
in at this moment.
We're not going to season it totally, 
because it's still got a ways to go....
But this gives it some body right now. 
And you want to add a little bit of sugar....
And while you do a little sugar, 
I'm gonna put a little salt in there, k?
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
Good? Or do you want me to go a little more?
 
[Chef Mai Pham]
Maybe a little bit more. Okay.
[Chef Mai Pham]
Yeah. And then we're just going 
to let this go for a little while
and then the next thing we're going to 
do is we're going to start our pot.
Let's say if this is ready, then you need to 
get your bowls ready to assemble it.
So, in a in a college/university setting, where 
you have a big, maybe, cooking exhibition style,
you take the pot that's — or the broth that's 
already made—  out there, keep it on a little low boil,
and then you have another pot 
with a rolling boil, you know,
really vigorous boil. That's where 
you're going to dump your noodles.
[Chef Mai Pham]
So, let's go onto that step. 
 
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
Okay great.
[Chef Mai Pham]
This is coming along really beautifully. 
Our water is boiling away there.
We have rice noodles. If you're using dried 
rice noodles, such as this one in the bag,
what you can do to expedite it.....
You see here? It says "size medium" or "large" here. 
Actually it says "large."
That's large, if you kind of like a 
wider noodle — linguini style noodle.
I probably like a little 
bit smaller, you know?
And here we've soaked it in 
water for at least 30 minutes
and so what that does is, that helps to cook it a 
little bit faster, and take some of that excess starch out.
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
And it goes very quickly. And I remember how, 
over there, it was only fresh noodles.
[Chef Mai Pham]
Yeah, everything is fresh there. 
So, go ahead and just, yeah, put a load.
Now, the proportion is very important. You want to 
have one portion of noodles to four parts water.
So, you want the bowl to be kind of 
filled to the rim almost, with liquids, so....
that's probably good for this bowl. 
Yes, is probably enough.
No more than that, okay. 
Go ahead and put a little bit bean sprouts in.
We do this at the restaurant. You don't have to do this. 
In Vietnam, they don't do it.
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
They just do it raw? 
And they put the broth on?
[Chef Mai Pham]
Yeah, we kind of.... I do it at the restaurant because 
I kind of like my noodles to sit a little bit higher....
And so that when I put the meat on top, 
it shows off really well.
Okay, so now here's a trick that we always say, 
you really need this, Steve.
You have to kind of stir it around. And what you want to do is basically
— washing the noodles — 
cooking and washing and rinsing, right?
At the restaurant — at Lemongrass Restaurant
 — when we do this, we're at....
One of the things that I'm really a fanatic about is 
to make sure that you really rinse it well.
Otherwise, it'll dilute the flavor of the 
broth and you want it to be in the....
You know, you don't want to do it too quickly, because you 
you want to completely cook off on all the excess starch, so....
When you bring it up, make sure you do it like the 
way we do it in Vietnam — is bang on the sides.
So, make sure that all the excess water....
It's kind of like cooking pasta. If you still have water in 
the pasta, this sauce is not going to be that great, right?
Okay transfer that to a bowl, right?
It's very important that the 
bowl is hot or preheated.
In Vietnam, we kind of like pull the basket, 
put it in the bowl.... Remember how they did it?
[Chef Mai Pham]
And they pour it back?
 
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
Pour it back in.
[Chef Mai Pham]
Okay, so you got your nice 
noodles in here, okay. So, um....
Do you want raw beef 
or cooked beef?
[Chef Mai Pham]
You probably want some cooked beef. 
You probably want both. Probably a combination.
 
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
I think a little bit of both. 
[Chef Mai Pham]
Okay, go ahead and slice. 
 
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
And that's what we had?
[Chef Mai Pham]
Yeah, yeah. So, go ahead. So, this is the 
beef that we cooked in this stock earlier, right?
So, you can use like a chuck,
 yeah, very small amount....
Some onions. I kind 
of like a lot of onions.
And here, it's very important that 
they're cut no thicker than this.
They have to be paper thin, right?
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
You want a nice sweet onion 
if you can get one.
 
[Chef Mai Pham]
Right. Right here.
I kind of like a lot of green onions. 
It looks like an excessive amount, but it really isn't.
We'll go ahead and put the meat in here, okay?
[Chef Mai Pham]
Do you like some raw beef, too?
 
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
A little bit. 
 
[Chef Mai Pham]
Okay, a little bit.
[Chef Mai Pham]
Okay so then we'll do that, 
and when we pour..... 
 
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
Gotta have both, right?
[Chef Mai Pham]
Right, and when we pour boiling broth on 
it, it's going to cook the meat instantly, right?
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
Right in that pot there, will ya?
And also I noticed when we're over there too, sometimes they put 
the raw beef in the little ladle, and just sort of stirred it real quick.
[Chef Mai Pham]
Actually, yeah. Okay, yeah, cuz they want  
to make sure that.... you know....
Over there also because the beef is not as nice as one 
that we can get. The beef oh there's kind of little tough,
and they want to make sure that it's kind of somewhat 
cooked, otherwise grizzly. Not that well done. 
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
And  I know you said in your restaurant,  
you actually use....
 
[Chef Mai Pham]
We use a New York Steak.
 
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
A New York Strip, yes.
[Chef Mai Pham]
Which this is. And basically, yes, this 
is how you do it traditionally, right?
[Chef Mai Pham]
So, you help cook it a little bit. 
 
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
Just a tiny bit.
[Chef Mai Pham]
And actually, and then what you do is, you want to make sure
that this customer gets the real sweet meat broth, right.
So, here we go.
And usually when you do this, you want to make 
sure you don't get any fat in the broth, okay?
And usually when I pour it in, 
I like to pour the sides.
I don't like to pour it on top, because 
I like all the meat to stay on one side.
So, this is how it's typically served, right? 
You can do a little bit a black pepper.
This is how they do it in Vietnam, 
you want to go ahead and, um....
Traditionally in Vietnam, it's served with some 
hoisin sauce and some chili sauce — sriracha sauce.
So you put that in here.
A little warning, this is a personal thing: 
I don't really like this very much in my soup,
because I like, you see, how....?
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
Oh, how clean? 
 
[Chef Mai Pham]
How clean? Right?
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
How clean that's gonna be, you know, 
I think I'd mask it....
[Chef Mai Pham]
Right. I kind of like that with just a little bit
 — a squeeze of lime, just not a whole lot.
Be very careful. 
A little bit of that.
And you, of course, to eat, you would shred, 
you know, all the fresh herbs in here, right?
With your hands.... And by the time you are 
done prepping—Oh! Yeah! Put some of that!
Saw leaf.
Saw leaf herb in there.
And I'm kind of ready to dig in because my 
hands smell really good, right?
And I'm gonna get you a little spoon.
Okay, just gonna push it down here.
This is a clean spoon....
So, go ahead taste it. Yeah, I'm gonna 
go ahead and taste that with you too.
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
And if I want a little heat, I could
use a little bit of chilis.
 
[Chef Mai Pham]
Oh! Actually I do like a heat. 
Do you like heat?
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
I know you actually like a little 
more heat than I like.
[Chef Mai Pham]
Should I put a little bit in?
 
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
A little bit.
[Chef Mai Pham]
Okay, yeah, there you go.
 
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
So, when I start turning red, 
then you know.... I am....
[Chef Mai Pham]
Well, I just put three rings in. 
 
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
No. Yeah, that's probably 
my speed there.
[Chef Mai Pham]
Isn't that nice?
 
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
It's really.... I mean....
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
Just nice and smooth, you get the herbs, 
the green onions, the light beef notes.
I mean — the warmth of the spices.
[Chef Mai Pham]
Right. And the whole idea is when you're served such a big bowl, 
we probably - you know - could put a little bit more broth in here,
but it comes so hot that you'll get all this steam. 
And the steam sort of rises and embraces your face,
and then your fingers smell 
all this wonderful fresh herbs,
and that's the true pho experience.
And I think that if you serve it that way, you're giving 
your customers the full experience, so.....
Very important that everything is done very thin. 
Broth is very hot, clear....
Serve it in a bowl — a big bowl — 
so you can keep the heat in there.
Lots of fresh herbs. If you can get it, but if you....
Let's say if you can't get the saw leaf herb, 
try to get at least the Asian Basil.
But you know, I've been in places where you can't (sometimes, 
in the winter) when it's a little bit hard to get Asian Basil.....
It's very delicious with cilantro and....
All the condiments, yeah. 
Remember, though, that in Vietnam, in Hanoi, 
where this dish originated,
people there are very much into what a 
bowl of pho is supposed to taste like.
And even though there are lots 
of fresh herbs in Vietnam....
[Chef Mai Pham]
The people in the north....
 
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
They didn't use them?
[Chef Mai Pham]
No, because they don't want — because they think 
herbs mask the flavor of this wonderfull....
 
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
....of the richness of the beef that they....
You know, it's a sought-after piece of meat there.
[Chef Mai Pham]
Remember that one place that we went 
and they didn't have any herbs? And....
But in the south, the difference is — 
in the South is that....
People love their pho. 
It is a regional difference.
People love their pho with fresh herbs. 
Lots of fresh herbs.
And in the southern part of Vietnam is where you will 
find such an abundant amount, served at the table, such as this.
You won't find this kind of amount 
served in the Central part, not as much.
[Chef Mai Pham]
And as you go further north, you see that....
 
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
.....Less and less and less.
[Chef Mai Pham]
Yeah, because people really like the pure taste. 
 
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
And actually less spice as you go up.
[Chef Mai Pham]
Right. And it's also because of the Chinese influence is much
more prevalent in the north. It borders, you know, China.
And we have a lot of steamed food, 
some stir fry foods,
and things that are probably more 
similar to southern Chinese cooking,
like Cantonese cooking, 
like Hong Kong style.
The Cantonese cooking that is 
so popular in this country.
But what a great dish, right?
And as you can see not 
terribly difficult to make,
but you kind of have to pay attention to all these 
little details that make a real big difference.
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
And you also told me that you 
could do it with chicken.
[Chef Mai Pham]
That's right! And actually, you know, 
there is such a thing as a combination,
and in this country, customers love combination 
toppings and combination soup and salad.
But, you can also put some 
fresh chicken in there, if you like.
You can also do this with tofu. 
You can make a nice vegetable broth
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
With the same warming spices and so on.
 
[Chef Mai Pham]
Right.
[Chef Mai Pham]
If you char the onions, char the ginger, 
make a broth similar to what we did,
but do with a vegetable stock, 
you'll get a beautiful pho, too,
especially if you serve it with some mushrooms 
(like shiitake mushrooms) to give it a little body, right?
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
Give some flavor, right.
 
[Chef Mai Pham]
And some tofu. Like, seared tofu.
[Chef Steve Jilleba]
Fantastic.
 
[Chef Mai Pham]
Great.